"Ruth Ann Fisher interview (wife of late Buena Vista College president, John Fisher)"

"Ruth Ann Fisher interview (wife of late Buena Vista College president, John Fisher)"

"Buena Vista College -- Oral histories"

Oral histories--Iowa--Storm Lake

College presidents--Iowa--Storm Lake

College presidents' spouses--Iowa--Storm Lake

Fisher, John A. "Jack"

Fisher, Ruth Ann

Buena Vista University

1989

audio/mpeg

English

Sound

http://bvuarchives.bvu.edu/Audio/OralHistories/RuthAnnFisher.mp3

Barbara Palling

Ruth Ann Fisher

Fisher Ruth Ann 1989.mp3

BP = Barbara Palling
RAF = Ruth Ann Fisher

BP: [00:00:01] This is Mrs RuthAF: , who is the widow of one of our former presidents of Buena Vista College. Ruth Ann, tell us a little bit about how you and Jack came to be at Buena Vista College.

RAF: [00:00:16] Well, we had a very good friend who was the Executive Secretary of the Synod of Iowa, Henry Snyder (sp), and he talked to Jack one day down at Coe(College) and said, "Are you interested in a college presidency?" And Jack said, "Well, I hadn't thought about it ." And he said, "Well, would you mind if I put your hat in the ring?" So, that's the way it got started. And then we came up here in March for the interview. And Tom-- Tom Eilers was the chairman of the committee. And he said that he had several things he was judging Jack on, and the poorest part was raising money, which Jack did more than [chuckles] anything else when he got up here. But we came up here and when we came-- went into the front door of Old Main, here were the broken down mailboxes of the students. It was the saddest lookin' place you ever saw. And when Jack and I left here-- 'course we did have-- we visited with Lavina (sp) and Bill Wesselink and had a nice visit with them, and then, of course, met the rest of the board members. But on our way back to Cedar Rapids, we both looked at each other and said, "Nobody in their right mind would come up here. That poor little place, but it's a gorgeous town." [laughs] And we-- But we said now we knew what a minister talked about when he said he had a call. If we were invited to come up here, we could no more have said no than anything, because it just seemed like it was something that we ought to do. And we were never sorry that we did it.

BP: [00:02:00] How long was it from the time that-- that you came up for your interview before you were asked to come back?

RAF: [00:02:08] Well, we came up in March for the interview, and we got our letter in May.

BP: [00:02:13] That's a long time to wait.

RAF: [00:02:13] Yes. So you just kind of wonder what-- 'course I knew they had other people to interview and all but-- It was an interesting experience.

BP: [00:02:25] I bet it was. [Recorder stops and starts.] Well, tell us-- tell us about your first impressions of-- of the college when you got here. You'd come from Coe College, which was--

RAF: [00:02:43] Yes.

BP: [00:02:44] quite different.

RAF: [00:02:45] Well, I hate to say it, but it was sad. The buildings, of course, they did have. They had Swope Hall and they had the science building which later was called Smith Hall, and then Fracker Library. And then the building east-- well, the boys dorm-- the first part of the boys dorm was built while we were here. And the building east of there, which later on, I think, became admissions for a while, was there. And then, of course, the gymnasium. And going to a basketball game, that gymnasium was quite an experience. [both laugh] You practically sat on top of the players but later on they got bleachers that would push back against the wall, so it did give 'em a little more room to do some-- some of their athletic things in there but-- Well, it was sad here and there, but it still had a something-- a charm about it that was-- Old Main was a lovely building-- and of course, the night of the fire, they-- well, the fire marshal-- state fire marshal had just okayed the building the day before--

BP: [00:04:00] [laughs].

RAF: [00:04:00] and it had never been in such good shape. But Jack thinks-- and that it started-- they had just finished the roof, and he thinks maybe one of the workmen had dropped a cigarette down in, and it had smoldered, because all the time during the fire, the lights were on, so it couldn't have been electrical shorts--.

BP: [00:04:20] No.

RAF: [00:04:21] --of any kind.

BP: [00:04:22] No.

RAF: [00:04:23] And I know somebody called me and said Old Main was on fire. So Jack was up at-- Up at the lakes at a pres--our college business meeting. So, I called him up there, and I said, "Well, Jack, Old Main's on fire, and I'll call you back." And I hung up.

BP: [00:04:41] [laughs] I'll bet he was on his ear.

RAF: [00:04:43] He was, and then-- well, I couldn't tell him anything. And then later on-- Bob Knapp was treasurer then and business manager, and later on, when we knew something, we both called Jack and and told him. And he said, "I turned around to the other college presidents," and he said, "Well, what would you think if your Old Main was on fire? Some of 'em said, "Say, let us know how you did it. We've got a couple of buildings we'd like to get rid of.

BP: [00:05:14] [laughs].

RAF: [00:05:14] He said, "But that's not the way to do i.t It's basically when you spend all that money getting it fixed up." But fortunately they had also upgraded their insurance on the building so they did get [unintelligible]. It still meant a lot about calling on people to get money to build that building. And it-- And then, the night of the fire I went racing in because I wanted to take Jack's drapes down because they were brand new, and I thought maybe I could use them in the Miller-Stuart house. And-- Then I start-- I grabbed some-- I wish I knew who that fellow was that I grabbed to help me, because I never did find out who the student was. And we got the drapes down and started out the door, and I thought, I don't want to go through all that mud. Then I thought, Well, what choice do I have? So, out the door we went and over to the house (Miller-Stuart). And then later on, too, I had a-- I had a-- a box-- Well, we'll call it a box of bonds that they had taken out, and Jack had a brand new desk in there that they had taken the top off to move it in, and then screw the top on it, and later on a glass top was put on it. Some kids picked it up and moved it out without any problem and just a little bit of paint along. So, [laughs] you do lots of things when you're under stress.

BP: [00:06:48] Oh, I-- I can imagine the adrenaline--.

RAF: [00:06:49] Oh, yeah. And it's amazing the things the kids could haul out. There wasn't a thing-- They got all the records and took them all down to the gym. And it really-- it was-- it really worked beautifully, and if it happened-- I think if it happened the year before, I think the college would have gone to pot, so to speak, because we didn't have the boys' dorm. But this time, we did. The boys all came all out and went up and started hauling things down If they'd had to come from all over town, they wouldn't have gotten there in time.

BP: [00:07:23] Well, the word probably wouldn't have gotten out quite that rapidly.

RAF: [00:07:25] No, it wouldn't have. So it was really quite an experience, one student was going down the sidewalk with a bunch of books in his arm, and somebody yelled, "Beanie!" and he had to put the books down for-- [both laugh -- NOTE: Freshmen were required to wear beanies for a number of weeks during their fall semester as part of freshmen initiation. Upperclassmen would say, "Button!" or "Beanie!" to freshmen, who were expected to immediately kneel or there would be hazing consequences.] They don't do that anymore. They don't they have to wear their freshman caps and things.

BP: [00:07:48] I don't think they even have freshman caps anymore.

RAF: [00:07:50] No, I don't think so, either, but that-- that was a funny experience, and a kid would bring a whole-- or two of 'em-- would bring down a filing cabinet, and they would take four of 'em to go from the front of the building down to the gym.

BP: [00:08:05] But two of them could get it out--

RAF: [00:08:08] Yeah-- could get it down steps.

BP: [00:08:09] That's interesting.

RAF: [00:08:10] And then the next day, when we looked up and saw the Christian flag still hanging up in the chapel up there and also the-- and I don't know where that is now-- there was a-- Dr. Sampson had a-- a-- oh, what did he call the society of some kind and-- they had their names on-- the people that had made this, and it was hanging on the wall up there, and that and the Christian flag were the two things that were saved, but I haven't seen the-- that--

BP: [00:08:48] Ben (?)

RAF: [00:08:49] No, It was a frame.

BP: [00:08:51] Oh, oh.

RAF: [00:08:51] And it-- it was pretty good size and it had people, certain years, and then everybody had signed that had--.

BP: [00:08:59] Oh.,.

RAF: [00:09:00] Made the honor society, you know.

BP: [00:09:01] I don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about that--

RAF: [00:09:05] That-- that'd be a nice thing to try and find, but maybe you won't be able to find it, I don't know. Maybe Dr. Sampson had it, but I think they would have found it in his things.

BP: [00:09:16] [crosstalk] I would have thought-- I know somebody brought us Dr. Sampson's lectern, his little [unintelligible -- portable(?)] lectern that he used to take around.

RAF: [00:09:21] Uhm-hmm.

BP: [00:09:21] We've got that.

RAF: [00:09:25] Uhm-hmm. But if he'd had that-- that other, it would have been in his house.

BP: [00:09:31] Yeah.

RAF: [00:09:32] Somebody would have noticed it. So, I don't know what happened, but it-- it was brought down, along with the flag. So, it's around somewhere.

BP: [00:09:41] Where was-- where was Jack's office? On the ground floor or up?

RAF: [00:09:48] Well, you went up steps to [unintelligible] --

BP: [00:09:50] Ohhh.

RAF: [00:09:50] --and then it was straight back, and you had to go through several places. I know that when we first came-- [whispers -- recorder stops and restarts]

BP: [00:10:04] Tell me about some of the entertaining that you did at the house?

RAF: [00:10:08] Well, the first-- of course, the first thing we had was a freshman reception the fall after we moved here. And I had ordered a picture of Old Main to go over the mantle because I didn't have anything to go over there, and it was a kitty-corner thing, and so, a mirror wouldn't look very good. So, at 6:30 one night that was hung, and at 7:30, the freshmen came. [both laugh] That's the way things are done occasionally.

BP: [00:10:39] Yeah. You had a reception for all freshmen early in the year.

RAF: [00:10:42] Uh-huh. Right during when they were here for freshman orientation. Why we had the freshmen, then we had the active football season, basketball season, and baseball season. And I think we had some for the track and tennis, although we didn't have much in those days. And I had the senior athletes and their wives, if they were married, because I didn't invite any of their girls because sometimes they'd have-- they'd have changed girls from the time the invitation went, to the time of the dinner--

BP: [00:11:15] [laughs]

[00:11:15] --so I didn't take any chances. But we had those and the coaches and their wives for dinner and I had-- my first experience was, I wanted something that they didn't have over-- over at the dorms so I had stuffed baked potatoes. Well, there were 40 people there, and I didn't realize [laughs] that I should do my potatoes a few at a time. I did all 40 of 'em-- by the time I got to the fortieth one, it was a little cold and hard to get out and make mashed potatoes out of. [both laugh] But you learn. And I had two women working in the kitchen because Jack said he wanted a sit-down meal, and I said OK, and then I sit, too. So we had two-- And then I had some of the senior girls waiting on table. And the first time this little girl came, and she took away my plate, and fortunately she stopped at my place first, and she said, "Keep your fork." And I turned to her and I said, "Oh no, we don't do it that way." I said, "You take it out to the kitchen. There should be enough silverware out there, and, if not, they will wash it, so that we will have clean forks for our dessert."

BP: [00:12:29] [laughs]

RAF: [00:12:31] I didn't [ crosstalk] have any problem after that, but I--

BP: [00:12:34] [crosstalk]--have a little class.

RAF: [00:12:34] I thought if I'm going to teach 'em something--.

BP: [00:12:39] That's right.

RAF: [00:12:39] Better teach 'em right.

BP: [00:12:41] That's right.

RAF: [00:12:41] We had-- and then we also had-- after the Christmas concert, we always had the choir over for punch and cookies, and then I had the student council members--and husband and wife, if they were married--over for dinner, too, during the year. And then I had the reception at commencement time.

BP: [00:13:05] Did you do all the cooking or did you--[crosstalk]

RAF: [00:13:07] Yes.

BP: [00:13:07] --have someone helping you. You did all the cooking.

RAF: [00:13:07] [laughs]

BP: [00:13:07] You did!

RAF: [00:13:11] Well, we didn't have that nice dining room, the things that we have-- well, we did have in the basement of Swope Hall, they had a kitchen, but they weren't up to doing anything for me there. So I just got to where I had a set menu so I could get it done in a hurry, and I varied my desserts, my salads which I could do the day before. The only-- one meal I had done out was-- Peterson's gave us a great big turkey one Christmastime and I said, Oh, with Jack and Bob not liking turkey, there'd be an awful lot of turkey left over, so I saved it, and there used to be a dining place out on east Lakeshore called-- Hmm, can't remember now, but it's long gone. And the cook out there was from Pocahontas, so she did buy turkey for me and did the gravy. Then she made my pecan pies. And the only other time I think I did when-- when Safeway was-- was where the-- the-- there on East Sixth Street, and I had them do ribs for me one time. And I had one of those big electric ovens and they're just [unintelligible]

BP: [00:14:43] [crosstalk].

RAF: [00:14:44] [crosstalk--unintelligible] baseball kids.

BP: [00:14:46] [laughs] They were hungry, then.

RAF: [00:14:46] Yes, they were. Those kids-- and it was interesting because the first time I told them when to come, and of course the kids were all there ready to go. But the faculty the-- the coaches, their wives were late. And I found out that when you invite kids for 6:00 or 6:30, you better be ready. [Pauling laughs] They were all right there. [laughs] So, from then on everybody was on time.

BP: [00:15:12] They took you at your word.

RAF: [00:15:14] Yeah, they did. [Recorder stops and restarts.]

BP: [00:15:18] Can you tell us a little bit about some of the people who-- who worked for Jack?

RAF: [00:15:22] Well, one night it was real interesting. John and Virgene(sp) Sorenson, who-- he had the choir and they were over and we were having coffee and-- something out in the kitchen, around the table and-- and then we had a-- a--

BP: [00:15:47] Was it a-- that cocker spaniel?

RAF: [00:15:48] Yeah, cocker spaniel. Goldie was her name, and she got on an extra chair there and sat at the table and [makes a whining, yawning sound] as if to tell them, "It's a little late." So, John says, "Well it's a good, nice thing when a dog tells you it's time to go home." [laughs] So, we walked on toward the front door, and we were talking some more, and Goldie came there, and she went "Hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm," as if to tell them, "Keep going." [both laugh] "Go out the door." And that is the only time that Goldie ever did that to anybody [laughs], and John never got over it. [both laugh] Oh, shoot.

BP: [00:16:22] Oh, dear. [laughs] Well you were-- your presidency was during a time of real growth for Buena Vista.

RAF: [00:16:37] Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

BP: [00:16:37] What were some of the buildings that you built?

RAF: [00:16:39] Well, the only buildings that were built was Dixon-Eilers Hall, and, of course, then that place was left for the chapel And-- and then the first part of the boys' dorm. A lot of things were in the works but they-- they had to do 'em when they could afford to, and do 'em one at a time But it was more or less planned that way, and, of course, the arch was the-- the doorway to Old-- Old Main, and Jack and Bill Wesselink came up with the idea of making an arch out of it.

BP: [00:17:22] Where did they put it after the building was burned-- [crosstalk].

RAF: [00:17:25] Well, it was-- well, it was [[laughs] in a pile for a long time, and each one was numbered so they'd be sure and get it back right. And then it was put down in the corner of-- let's see, it'd be the-- [crosstalk] the northwest corner of 3rd and College so that you could look Through the arch and see the building and would eventually see the chapel.

BP: [00:17:50] Uh-hmm.

RAF: [00:17:50] And then that's where the bell was. Oh, and Jack and I found the bell up in-- I can't remember the name of the town but it's in northeast Iowa. And it was in an old church, and we asked them what they were going to do with the bell, and they didn't know so we-- they gave us the bell, and then we had Bill Wesselink-- went up with his station wagon and hauled the bell down. [Palling laughs] That's the bell that is over now-- over and across-- well, by the new science building, yeah. But that used to be fun, and when we'd win a game, how that thing would sound all over.

BP: [00:18:36] I'll bet it would. It's an awful loud bell.

RAF: [00:18:39] Yes, it is. But it's a good bell. It'll last a long time.

BP: [00:18:44] It will. It will. Where did they play football in those days? Where they do now?

RAF: [00:18:51] Uh-hmm. Yeah. Oh yes. In-- in the fall after we came here, the Kiwanians came down and helped paint the wooden bleachers because they were gettin' kinda sad-looking, and it was a-- well, just the brick-- the shape of it-- then they were wooden bleachers along, and it-- it served its purpose. [Palling laughs] Of course, it's nice to have the nice, new one now.

BP: [00:19:17] Sure.

RAF: [00:19:20] And-- and I-- I know after the money was given to the college I wrote to the man and-- and told him who I was. I had met him, but I knew he wouldn't remember me, and I explained who I was, and I said how much we appreciated the money that he gave to the college. And I said at the time that Jack and I were here, we weren't ready for that kind of money, but I said the college was ready at the time that he gave the money. Because they were just too many things that had to be done before the college was ready.

BP: [00:19:56] So, that was sort of the groundwork that Jack did.

RAF: [00:20:02] Uh-hmm. And, of course, Keith Briscoe worked on that, and got the man to give the money, but it-- but you had-- you had to do-- you had to get your curriculum in-- in good shape and you had to do a lot of things before, oh, money could come.

BP: [00:20:30] Yeah. [Recorder stops and restarts.].

RAF: [00:20:30] Seven couples had-- We used to get together once a month and have potlucks, and, of course, since most of the places weren't big enough, they ended up in our living room, and we had lots of good food. And at Christmastime, the men would take over, and it used to worry us so, because they never planned their menu until the morning. But, of course, it always ended up by being waffles, and the first time we had a potluck, we blew a fuse, because we had everything that was in the plug-in in the kitchen. Oh-- Oh, the waffle iron just stopped, so we finally had to plug the coffee pot and put it on the landing on the back stairs and hook it up clear upstairs [both laugh], so it wouldn't blow any more fuses But at Christmastime the fellas would do the-- get all the food and do all the ordering and fix the food, and we'd sit down and they'd wait on us and they'd have a little corsage or something there for us, and it was really kind of fun. We had a lot of good recipes we passed back and forth.

BP: [00:21:42] Were you involved much with the student organizations?

RAF: [00:21:49] No. Uh-uhmm. No, I didn't. We were invited to their doings and all. I remember when we'd go to the dances and stuff, we said, "Well, we really don't need to be chaperones. If you don't want us to chaperone the dances in the future, you don't need to ask us. I don't want you to feel like you had to do it." [Palling laughs] But, no, we weren't involved, except, of course, having them over at the house and going to some of the things that they put on. But I remember we had the choir-- had a pancake supper to raise money down in-- in the boys' dorm, and I always complained that I liked a saucer under my cup, [laughs] and so John Sorenson made a big to-do about bringing me a saucer to put under my cup. [both laugh] So, I guess one shouldn't be doing that all-out, all the time, but it was kind of fun. [Recorder stops and starts]

BP: [00:23:00] Well, there was a-- a yule log that they-- a ceremony that they had--

RAF: [00:23:04] Yes. Uh-hmm. Phoebe Lafoy started it, and it was over in Swope Hall, and at Christmastime. And they would also have a wreath that they would put on top of the yule log to burn, and they had a-- they had a nice program and sang songs and then had a tea afterwards. And it was-- it was a real nice affair. One-- one of the things that happened when we first came here-- [Aside: take it off if you want to, later.] I mean, but-- Then the girls-- in the girls' shower room-- when they were showering-- the mist on the window-- it was one of those windows you can't see through, would show their figures. [Palling laughs] So, one of the first things [laughs] I had to do, Lavina (?) and I made toweling curtains so that the boys wouldn't get-- [both laugh] get to watch the girls [both laugh] [unintelligible] like that, but then that's what happened.

BP: [00:24:04] Well, who is-- who was invited to the yule log ceremony?

RAF: [00:24:10] Well, the faculty wives. And then, I don't know, there may have been a few townspeople that were invited. I don't know whether the girls are the ones that-- that made up the guest list or not. I imagine they did, because they did all the program planning, but, of course, they did it with the help of Phoebe. And I always wish she'd written down a bunch of those things, because there were lots of things over in the dorm they did that-- that I don't know whether they do now or not but it was a nice program. 'Course I think painting the windows now at Christmastime is a nice thing to do, and I remember that we used to have the lighting of the tree over on campus. And that was always the Monday after Thanksgiving, and I always spent Thanksgiving weekend decorating our tree, because Jack thought our tree ought to be lit at the same time the tree on campus was.

BP: [00:25:11] Which one of the trees on campus was it?

RAF: [00:25:16] I think it's still there. It's somewhere-- It's somewhere between-- it was an evergreen-- it was somewhere between the chapel and Swope Hall.

BP: [00:25:28] Oh, there's-- there's a bunch of trees there.

RAF: [00:25:29] Uh-hmm. Yeah-- yeah, and there probably are other trees grown up around it now, but we always used to do it.

BP: [00:25:38] The maintenance men would string the lights.

RAF: [00:25:41] Uh-hmm. And then I had-- we took a tree from after Old Main burned-- we moved a tree from around where Old Main was and put it in the corner of our lot. And then we decorated that tree, too. And then we found out that kids would go along and take all the bulbs out and break them, which, to me, was pathetic but-- and so we thought they were all on because the lights toward our house were lit, you know-- [Palling laughs} And then-- until a neighbor called me and told me that the lights were all gone on one side of the tree.

BP: [00:26:24] [laughs] [Recorder stops and restarts] Ok, tell me about the floor plans of Dixon-Eilers.

RAF: [00:26:27] Well, they were-- they were conceived on our dining room table. Oh, not dining room table, kitchen table, because Jack and Bill Wesselink sat there and designed what they wanted on the inside of Dixon-Eilers Hall. And when they came to build the building, it was only one wall that they had to move a little ways to make room for the right size window, which to me was amazing because they weren't architects, but they knew what they wanted in the building and they got it. Of course, it's been changed since, but at that time, it was what was needed.

BP: [00:27:06] Well, when they built the building, they left the space for the chapel to be added on later.

RAF: [00:27:12] Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. That was in the plans. In fact, then when the arch was put down in the corner, you were supposed to be able to see through there, and see the chapel when it was built later, and--

BP: [00:27:28] You remember anything about the groundbreaking ceremony or getting the money together to build DE or anything like that?

RAF: [00:27:36] I know it took a lot of handshaking, you know. [laughs] That took a while but it-- it was accomplished. And I think it's a very versatile building.

BP: [00:27:51] It's certainly been changed and changed even in the time I've been here.

RAF: [00:27:56] Oh, yeah. Well, as I say, times change, and you have to go along with the times, whether you like it or not.

BP: [00:28:03] [laughs] That's-- that's the truth. Well, had they started to build the second part of the girls'/boys' dormitory, Pierce-White, down there?

RAF: [00:28:12] No.

BP: [00:28:12] That came later.

RAF: [00:28:14] No. The first-- the first one was the groundbreaking-- was at Jack's inauguration time. And that building was built. In fact, that's why I say when the night of the fire, if we hadn't had the boys' dorm, they wouldn't have saved all the stuff that they did because the boys wouldn't have been able to get there in a hurry like they did.

BP: [00:28:37] Did the girls from the girls' dorm do much during the fire?

RAF: [00:28:43] I don't remember. [both laugh] I'm ashamed to say that I don't-- I suppose they did, but it was the boys that were really-- 'course the business manager and-- and buildings and grounds kind of directed the kids on what to do. So, I don't know, there may have been some girls carrying some of the things out, but I don't remember that part, but I'm ashamed to say, because I suppose they did.

BP: [00:29:12] Oh, I imagine everybody was so emotionally geared [crosstalk] to-- You were basically just looking for what you were looking for.

RAF: [00:29:20] That's right. Uhm-hmm. And I remember that when Jack and Bill and Don Kelly came down from the lake (Iowa Great Lakes) and got here about, oh, about three o'clock in the morning, and they were down at the Victory Hall, and they said, "Well, everybody said, 'Well, what about tomorrow?'" And they said, "Well, we'll have classes tomorrow." They didn't know where, but they had 'em.

BP: [00:29:45] They had all over town, didn't they?

RAF: [00:29:47] Yes, they had some over at the Presbyterian Church, and then, of course-- I don't know where they had some of the other classes, offhand. But they did have them-- spread around. And the town was-- was very receptive to helping out at a time like that too.

BP: [00:30:10] Oh, I can imagine they would be, yeah.

RAF: [00:30:16] Uh-hmm.

BP: [00:30:16] What time did-- did you hear that the fire had started?

RAF: [00:30:20] Well, I'd just gotten home from PTA meeting and was upstairs getting ready for bed, and the phone rang, and it was a boy saying, "Old Main's on fire," and hung up. [both laugh] So I went dashing over to [unintelligible] and I didn't know what I could do, but I did grab the boy and get the drapes down. But-- [Palling laughs] And then they they brought a wastebasket full of-- of stocks and bonds and stuck 'em in our living room. And then, of course, afterwards, Jack's office was in our house for a few months until I could make room for him down at the boys' dorm. But his secretary was-- was in the front hallway and that house just worked very nicely for that, and then he took over the dining room. [both laugh] We had paintings in the living room, so-- There wasn't-- I didn't get much done there on my-- But, in fact, I couldn't even-- we had Venetian blinds, and I couldn't even wash the windows. And when we did, they were practically black from all the smoke. We finally got 'em washed after they moved out, but it worked out all right.

BP: [00:31:38] How long did it take to get the new building-- the money to get the new building?

RAF: [00:31:48] Oh, dear. You know, I can't even remember. Bill would have to check that. See what the dates are, because I don't-- I don't remember when the groundbreaking was. 'Course the board of Christian education, I think, gave them some money And it was-- it was mostly-- oh, from businesses and companies. I-- I don't know, the records somewhere or other ought to tell who the contributors were because I sure don't-- I didn't get involved in things like that because we were first married Jack said, "I will run my office and you will run the house." [Palling laughs] And that's the way it'll be, and that's the way it is.

BP: [00:32:39] [laughs] That's the way it was.

RAF: [00:32:39] So, I didn't have anything to do with anything like that.

BP: [00:32:44] Did you-- Did you have very much to do with any of the student activities? I'm sure you got invited to a lot of things.

RAF: [00:32:51] Oh yes. Uh-huh. And then, of course, we had the students over, you know. And, of course, we always had students come over on Halloween trick or treating.

BP: [00:33:02] Trick or treating, yeah. Do you remember anything about those times?

RAF: [00:33:06] Oh, yes, because I remember the one time a bunch of football boys came and-- and then the next year, some of them were repeats, and then there were some other boys, and one of 'em says, "Well, these candy bars are smaller than they were last year." [both laugh] Oh, that's kids for you.

BP: [00:33:26] Yeah. And you-- I think you mentioned earlier that you decorated the tree at Christmastime.

RAF: [00:33:38] Uhm-hmm. Yeah, they had an evergreen tree on campus that they decorated with the lights, and they had a ceremony over there. It was always the first Monday after the-- after Thanksgiving when the kids got back, and then we always had to have our tree in the living room decorated because Jack thought those lights ought to go on the same time [as] the tree on campus. So, we spent Thanksgiving weekend decorating a tree. [Palling laughs] But you do those things because you like to.

BP: [00:34:11] Sure, you do. And it's-- it's in some ways, I suppose, it's kind of part of the job.

RAF: [00:34:15] It is.

BP: [00:34:16] But I'm sure it's also something you-- you enjoy doing. I-- I noticed looking through one of the old annuals that one of the ladies that was a secretary over there-- I don't remember now which office. It wasn't your husband's office but one the other offices-- her face looked very familiar to me, and I suddenly realized it's the lady that just retired from the Presbyterian church office.

RAF: [00:34:40] Oh, yeah--

BP: [00:34:40] Edna?

RAF: [00:34:46] Edna!

BP: [00:34:46] Edna is the only name I can remember her by. She worked out there for a while.

RAF: [00:34:51] Yes, she did. She was in the service department, and I've forgotten-- part time in some other department. Oh, yeah. She was Edna Baxter.

BP: [00:35:02] Edna Baxter. That's right.

RAF: [00:35:03] Yeah, she was a real nice gal. She worked at the church. She worked out very well at the church, too, because she knew everybody and what was going on, and the ministers, I think, would have had an awful time if it wasn't for Edna.

BP: [00:35:18] Has there always been a-- a closeness, that you can remember, between Lakeside Presbyterian and the college?

RAF: [00:35:30] Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. Yeah. They've always-- they've always-- 'course they contribute every year to the college and so do some of the churches in the-- in this Presbytery. And-- But-- I know I was never-- I never wore slacks. You don't need to use this, Bill. [referring to Bill Cumberland, heading the oral history project]. [Palling laughs] No, it's all right. I never was-- Well, I never had slacks anyway, but Jack said that he'd just as soon I wouldn't-- he didn't want me going to the-- answering the door and having the minister stand there and having me in slacks and stuff, so I had to keep a dress on.

BP: [00:36:08] Let's see, you all were here in the '50s.

RAF: [00:36:11] Uhm-hmm.

BP: [00:36:11] The latter part of the '50s. That was about the time that women started wearing slacks.

RAF: [00:36:20] I think so. Well, you know, they-- high school kids wore them. But I think the only time I wore them were when we were on vacation, in the summertime. And I sure-- we sure didn't wear 'em much, like we do now.

BP: [00:36:39] Times change, and you change with the times.

RAF: [00:36:42] That's right.

BP: [00:36:43] Was there a dress code in school? I know you've mentioned the freshman beanie.

RAF: [00:36:47] Well, they used to have that.The freshmen always-- wore that. But, I think, they did all the years that we were here. I don't know when that was stopped, but I don't know whether they have them on any campus anymore.

BP: [00:36:59] I haven't heard of any-- [crosstalk]

RAF: [00:37:10] But-- oh, yes-- Here's another thing you don't need to use, Bill. [Palling laughs] The faculty dressed better than they do [now]. [both laugh] And the students did, too. These students weren't all gussied up or anything, but at least they-- they didn't wear cut-off clothes and-- and some other things they wear now, but as you say, times do change.

BP: [00:37:39] They ate in the basement of Swope Hall?

RAF: [00:37:42] Uhm-hmm.

BP: [00:37:42] That was the cafeteria.

RAF: [00:37:44] Yeah.

BP: [00:37:44] Everybody ate there.

RAF: [00:37:44] Uhm-hmm. I don't know now whether-- whether the boys came up and ate there or not because they had a dining room in that basement of that building. So, I don't remember whether they ate there and the girls ate at Smith Hall. Oh, I remember the faculty decided they wanted a Christmas party, and we were going to have it in Swope Hall. And, of course, it was cafeteria style, and I said, "If we're-- [Recorder stops and restarts.] And so I said, "Well, I'm not going to go through the-- that line with a long dress and pick up a tray and carry food around, so we had a sit-down meal and this boy-- I had moved my coffee cup over to the left side since I'm left-handed, and he poured my coffee, and then he took Jack's cup from the right. When he filled it, he put it on the left, and I turned to him, and I said, "You put that on the wrong side." I thought I might as well tell him. He says, "Yes, but it's so much easier to put it down there." [both laugh] Oh, and I remember, too, when-- when the first dinner we had for this-- the senior football boys, and the girl fortunately came to me first and took my plate and said, "Keep your fork." And I turned to her and I said, "I'm sorry but you take the fork out to the kitchen. There's enough silverware to bring in clean with the dessert. And if not, they will wash it, because I don't like to have to use my fork again." [Palling laughs] And I never had any trouble after that.

BP: [00:39:38] Uh-huh.

RAF: [00:39:38] Just once.

BP: [00:39:39] They knew what to do in-- Did you did you do faculty entertaining?

RAF: [00:39:47] Well, of course, the faculty all came to the receptions, to the choir, and the freshmen, and commencement time. But-- I don't think-- Because, of course, then when we had the-- had the athletes, the coaches and their wives came. But I don't remember-- And then we may have the student council-- the student council advisors came. But I can't remember anything else as such. I don't think so, because I think that pretty much covered--

BP: [00:40:32] Yeah.

RAF: [00:40:33] Everybody.

BP: [00:40:42] Did-- [Recorder stops and starts] What did you see your role as the college president's wife as being?

RAF: [00:40:46] Well, I just figured that it was supposed to be working along with Jack, and doing what I could to help him without going across the street to his office, and whenever he wanted to-- I sometimes had maybe a half hour's notice that I was having company for lunch, so I had to keep food in the house so I could whip up something in a hurry. But no, it was just working along with him, and doing what I could to help. I remember he was going down to Synod. He was-- he was the last-- He was the last moderator of the Synod of Iowa before they merged with United Presbyterian Church, and he was the first moderator of the Synod when--after the merger--and when he went down to Synod meeting that July, and we had taken the wallpaper off of the guest room before he left, and Bob-- off of our bedroom. And then Bob and I were to do the one in the guest room. I don't know how many coats of paper that-- it must have had seven or eight because some of them the-- the design was like halfway down-- [laughs] down from the ceiling. And, oh-- and oh, hot-- it's always hot on Fourth of July. But Bob and I did it, and, of course, we only had one coat on our room so Jack and I had a breeze getting that off. [Palling laughs] But-- because anything that was done in the house we paid for, because the first thing we heard was in the past that whenever they raised money they spent it on Miller-Stuart house And we said, "Oh, they're not gonna say that about us." So what we did is the-- the college paid, but we paid the college so they would have a record of when things were done. And I remember we had a picnic when-- I think it was the Sorensons and the-- and the Williams. And we went on a picnic and then came home and tore up the linoleum in the kitchen-- [Palling laughs] floor, because it was-- it would be cheaper if we tore that up than to pay them to do it, you know, so-- And then of course the Sorensons helped us paint the kitchen, and it was so hot that night that the paint wouldn't even overlap. So we went out, went swimming out on the west end of the lake. That was before Frank Starr Park and then came back and painted from like midnight till 3:00 in the morning [Palling laughs] after it had gotten cooler. That's probably already on there. [Recorder stops and starts]

BP: [00:43:39] You all came in the fall of--

RAF: [00:43:41] No, we came in July [Palling echoes "July"] of 54.

BP: [00:43:43] Of '54.

RAF: [00:43:44] And in the fall before the football season started, our football stadium was just, oh, kind of a three-sided affair with-- I think with rock from the lake, and then the bleachers were all wooden and they looked terrible. So, Kiwanis Club that Jack belonged to came down one Saturday and they sanded the bleachers and painted them, so that for the first football game we had freshly painted bleachers. [Palling laughs] We were so proud of that. [both laugh]

BP: [00:44:18] Oh-- Did they play in the same conference that they play in now?

RAF: [00:44:24] Yeah, they did. And one time the ground was so hard that Jack got permission from the state-- I've forgotten who has charge of the lake--Fish and Game or whatever--to take some water out of the lake around the football field because he was so afraid that somebody'd fall and break their arm or leg or something and-- because it was so hard. And so then he went-- he got permission, then went east of town and got the equipment from-- from a farmer and then they-- I don't know-- they siphoned--or whatever it is--the water out of the lake. And I know some people were upset about it, and Jack talked to them in Des Moines. They said that, "You didn't take any more water out of the lake than would have evaporated in a day's time.".

BP: [00:45:20] Uh-huh.

RAF: [00:45:20] And I think they did it for, like, 24 hours before it really soaked in enough to do any good.

BP: [00:45:26] Eventually it went back into the groundwater and got into the lake, anyway.

RAF: [00:45:32] Yeah. Uhm-hmm. [Palling laughs] But there were a lot of fun times like that [Pauling laughs] because nobody had any-- had a lot, so everybody was willing to share what they had with somebody else. [Recorder stops and restarts]

BP: [00:45:49] Well, you've told us a little bit about [unintelligible], tell us a little about the Hirsches.

RAF: [00:45:53] Well, they-- the one thing I had heard about her-- 'course they were here when we came, was that she thought you had to be a Democrat, because this is a democratic country. [Palling laughs] And she was supposed to bring a-- a pumpkin pie to a meeting and she brought it, but she hadn't baked it. [Palling laughs] Evidently, she didn't know that's what you did. [Palling laughs] But, anyway, one day she was out shoveling because of course Dr. Hirsch couldn't lift anything, and so Jack stopped and did her shoveling for her. And she looked up at him, and she said, "Only in America." And he said, "Well, what do you mean?" She said, "In Europe, no college president would stoop so low." [both laugh] But they were-- they were such a charming couple. I know that when we were here they [not the Hirsches] wanted to have The Diary of Anne Frank [performed as a play]. And Jack said, "No way," because they [the Hirsches] were very good friends of the Franks. And he said that would bring back too many memories for them because, see, he was in the last-- Doctor Hirsch was in the last truck that-- that came out of-- I've forgotten which one of the places before they put them in the ovens.

BP: [00:47:15] Oh, gosh.

RAF: [00:47:15] She had gotten out and then had gotten him out. And, of course, that would be an awful thing for him to have to relive again. So, they never did. I noticed later on they did The Diary of Anne Frank, but I think they were gone by that time. And you do have to be a little considerate of people under those circumstances because it was a sad situation.

BP: [00:47:40] That must've been just really terrible.

RAF: [00:47:43] Uhm-hmm. It's something probably that nobody would be able to visualize. You'd have to actually go through it.

BP: [00:47:50] And let's hope nobody ever has to.

RAF: [00:47:52] I hope not, too. And then the man that was on TV that said there was no such thing as--

BP: [00:47:59] Bunch of balon--.

RAF: [00:47:59] Oh, I can't understand that.

BP: [00:48:02] No. Those people-- [sighs] Oh. Do you know anything about any of the other faculty that were here?

RAF: [00:48:20] Oh. [Fisher pauses] [Palling laughs] Ok, there probably is-- [Recorder stops and restarts] Well, we were talking about George Reynolds, and I remember one time when we had baccalaureate service at the Lakeside church, and he was-- he was the-- the--

BP: [00:48:43] Grand marshal or--.

RAF: [00:48:44] Grand marshal and he had seated them. And, of course, they fill the seats back and came toward the front, and we came to-- here he had people left over and no seats. Of course, you know George, "Where we at? Where we at?" So they had to hurry up and get folding chairs because he had forgotten-- he had counted the graduates, but he forgot to count the two-year teachers [Palling laughs] that were there were there for that, so that was a funny time. But they were a-- a charming couple. She-- she was very interesting.

BP: [00:49:26] Was she pretty active around?

RAF: [00:49:29] Yeah. She-- I think she had been a teacher at one time, but she was very active in Faculty Dames and-- and they lived right behind Bea Gran's (?) house. [Recorder stops and restarts] Grace Russell had given the college some tile that-- you know, ceiling tile, and so our kitchen ceiling looked so bad, so Jack decided that he would use that tile, put it on the ceiling. Well, we'd never done anything like that, where you start at the center and work out. He started one corner and came through, and that's the only square room we had in the house.

BP: [00:50:16] [laughs] That was a lucky thing.

RAF: [00:50:19] But-- and then when he was painting it, he was painting along and he said, "Got an idea." He said, "I think I'll go down to Lake City--I think it was Lake City--and talk to Jay Beekmann about being the baseball coach. So, off he went, and he came back, and it took him a couple trips down to convince Jay that he should come up here. But he was one of the good ones, and they lived right behind us, and I remember I used to see the-- the three kids playing out in the backyard, and I used to feel so sorry for Lonnie because they'd pick on him. [Palling laughs] He was the young one. [both laugh] But-- and I know she used to say-- I had painted the back porch and she said, "You are so slow at painting." I said, "Yes, I know, but I don't like to do it. [Palling laughs] I should do it in a hurry, and get it over with." But she said, "We can paint a room in the time you're doing about half of that back porch." [Palling laughs]

BP: [00:51:22] Your heart wasn't in it. [crosstalk]

RAF: [00:51:23] I know, but I got it done. [Palling laughs] [ Palling starts to ask a question, then the recorder stops and restarts] I went over to Old Main the next day after the fire, and here was a woman walking away with an armload of books, and I think they were the books from-- oh, the children's books, and I said, "I don't think you should do that. Those-- those books belong to the college." She said, "Well there is a woman up the block up there that has an armload full of books," and I said, "Yes, but I can't catch her." And I said, "I think you better put those back," and I made her put them back, because they were still good. And I don't know, I guess she thought I was going to [unintelligible] the college, all new books. [Palling laughs] Oh, dear. People do funny things.

BP: [00:52:16] They do, indeed.

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