Title
"Harold Siebens interview (Buena Vista College benefactor), conducted by William Cumberland and Sue Brinkman"
Subject
"Buena Vista College -- Oral histories"
Siebens, Harold Walter
Endowments--Iowa--Storm Lake
Oral histories -- Iowa -- Storm Lake
Publisher
Buena Vista University
Date
13-Jun-85
Format
audio/mpeg
Language
English
Type
Sound
Identifier
http://bvuarchives.bvu.edu/Audio/OralHistories/HaroldWalterSiebens.mp3
Interviewer
"Sue Brinkman,William H. "Bill" Cumberland"
Interviewee
Harold Siebens
Transcription
SB = Sue Brinkman
WC = William Cumberland
HS = Harold Siebens
Siebens Harold 1985.mp3
SB: [00:00:01] This is an interview conducted by WC: and SB: on June 13th, 1985, with Dr. HS: .
WC: [00:00:16] Dr. Siebens could you give us some biographical information? I understand your father was a student at Buena Vista College during the years 1898 to 1900.
HS: [00:00:29] Well, yes I can go back a little further than that, if you'd like. Would you care if I go back further or not?
WC: [00:00:37] That's fine. I'd like all the biographical material you could--.
HS: [00:00:41] Well, my grandfather Siebens brought his wife, my father, and my aunt to Storm Lake when they were children. And-- It must have been about-- about 1890, I guess. In later years-- he told me that when he arrived in Storm Lake, that there were four roads out of town: north, east, south, and west. And all you had to do was go about a quarter of a mile out of town-- and if you got off the road more than a hundred feet, you were up to your hips in-- in mud. But it seemed like that there were some farmers here who were from the lowlands in Europe, in the Netherlands, and they knew how to drain this land by tiling it. And it wasn't long and they had tiled a lot of the land and kept spreading. He told me that-- not too long after he arrived, he traded a shotgun, a fiddle, and one hundred dollars, for two quarter-sections. One was about-- I think it was about four or five miles north of Storm Lake, and the other about the same distance northeast. But they were too far apart to farm together so he built homes and farm buildings on both quarter-sections and hired farmers to lease them on shares. Think it was one-third, two-thirds. He then went into the town of Storm Lake and bought two vacant lots right across the street from the fire station. He built a very nice house on one of them, along with a barn for a one-horse shay. And-- the other lot was used for raising vegetables-- It-- At age 35 he retired on the income from the two farms.
HS: [00:03:11] Another story that was of interest and-- told me when I was, oh, 14 or 15 years of age, was that one day we were discussing Russia. And his warning was, "Hurled." He called me "Hurled." My name is Harold, but he called me "Hurled." He says, "You look out for them Rooshians." Well, [laughs] his-- his prophecy has certainly come true.
HS: [00:03:49] My father attended Buena Vista. I think it was in nineteen hundred, for one year.
[00:03:59] And graduated in the-- in what was then called the commercial course, which is now, of course, a-- a-- a school of business. I think his first-- Well, actually his first attempt at making money was trapping muskrats. And he didn't have very far to go, because, at that time, they lived pretty close to the edge of town. And he had a line of traps and sold his muskrats, but it wasn't very long when he decided that there was more money buying the muskrats from other trappers and reselling them. From there-- he went-- well, he went to Buena Vista, and after he graduated he went to work as manager for Lampson (sp) Grain Company. I-- I do not have a record of how many years he was at that position, but he finally resigned from Lampson, a full-fledged trader, and in those days trading was a profession. A little hard to understand what the profession consisted of, but to give an example: on a Monday morning he may board-- board the I-- I-- the Illinois Central [railroad] going east, and get off at some town down the line 100 or 200 miles and check in at the local hotel. After unpacking his bag, he'd go down into the lobby where he would find four or five other traders. Well, these men would sit around telling what they owned in the way of real estate, stores, motorcycles, bicy-- automobiles, most anything of value. And the idea was that they'd just sit there and trade, practically sight unseen. One trader may pull out a list of-- of an inventory of a notions store out of Iowa (he pronounces it "Ioway") and the other trader would-- would have a farm in South Dakota, and they had the deeds right there and the description, and there may be cash involved or maybe no cash involved. Anyhow, Dad was quite successful at-- at trading. And in 1910, when I was five years old, he traded for a business down in St. Louis, and that's how we happened to leave Storm Lake.
WC: [00:07:11] Did he often speak of Buena Vista College or--
HS: [00:07:14] Well, no, actually I don't remember dad saying-- saying too much about Buena Vista. I did have some contact. I went to work actually at a quite a-- early age and I might explain why. To underline the fact that education isn't everything. Now, I believe in education, but my parents sent me to a military school in St. Louis. I think I started in the sixth grade of elementary school, and I started carrying a gun and wearing a uniform, in the sixth grade. Now, I guess I was around twelve years old. I-- somehow was successful in graduating from grade school and got into high school, same military school. And at the end of the third year of high school, the principal wrote my father a letter. And he said, "Dear Mr. Siebens, We're sorry, but we don't seem able to teach Harold much of anything. So, he will not be accepted back at Principia [laughs] next year.".
HS: [00:08:46] So, I went to work, and it wasn't until some years later that I realized what my problem was. That was my memory. I had the world's worst memory. And just to give you a good example-- the English teacher, you know, will give you a poem to learn, you know, over-- over the evening and you're to come the next morning and recite it. I'm speaking of-- of either grade school or early high school. Well, I'd take this poem home, and my mother would help me with it. And I-- I-- I would do a pretty fair job before I went to bed. Well, I'd get up the next morning and go to school, and the teacher would ask me to get up and recite this poem. And I'd get up. I couldn't even remember the teacher's name. That's-- that's how bad my memory was. And to this day, if I don't have a piece of paper and a pencil with me, to make notes, I'm lost. [laughs] But what-- but-- the point I'm trying to make is that-- that education is never easy. You've got to have drive. You've got to-- to want to attain a goal. You have to do something that you're interested in.
WC: [00:10:20] A little bit later, I have some [laughs] things along that line also. Could you tell us a little about your business career? We talked about your father and about your business career and some of the adventures that you've had in business.
HS: [00:10:35] Well, my father-- my father got into the trading business in a big way down in St. Louis. And I went to work for him when I was about 18 years old. And-- [coughs] Excuse me. And-- I learned a lot from him. And a lot from people that he was doing business with. He eventually, due to change of conditions, trading went out of style. In other words, the trading in those days was finding farmers that wanted to get out of farming and move into town and open up a general store. Well, Dad would trade him-- trade for this farm land. He would trade stocks of merchandise that would give the-- would give the farmer instant-- an instant store to start up. Well, that-- that sort of thing went out of style and drop-- dropped off. And my father got into the-- what we called the jobbing business, that is jobbing merchandise. And I gradually-- I gradually worked him into sporting goods. And finally out of general merchandise for Champs (?) Sporting Goods and Athletic Equipment.
HS: [00:12:05] Dad passed on in 1939, and I took charge of the business. And when I sold out in 1948, the Sporting Goods Dealer which is our-- our trade magazine in sporting goods, called the American Sporting Goods Company the finest, most complete sporting goods store in the world. So, I actually built a business from practically nothing up to the finest-- finest in the United States. In 1948 right after the war I-- actually while the war was still going on, I start planning to expand the business. And I increased my-- my employee numbers from about 25 to 119. And my timing was very poor. I tried to expand too fast after the war was over, and the merchandise wasn't available because factories were changing over. It took them time to change over from war to peace merchandise. And-- so I found out that by 1948 that I'd better sell the business before it went down the drain. But-- I didn't have the distinction of building a beautiful [chuckles] sporting goods store. My health had gone-- had gone-- bad on me due to worrying and working overtime and so forth. So I realized I had to get my health back. So, having done a lot of fishing and hunting, especially fishing, which I started here in Storm Lake, I decided I'd organize a expedition to Alaska. So, I bought two house trailers and two trucks. I was divorced at the time. I loaded up my three children and my mother and the two house trailers. And the two trucsk which was loaded with hunting, fishing, and photography equipment. And headed for Alaska off the Alaskan highway. 1948 was the first year that they-- that they opened that road for civilian traffic. So it was quite a-- it was quite an experience going up that road. We spent the summer and fall up there. Came back to United States, but on the way up I ran into the Alberta oil development com-- the oil development. And I had some oil experience in Illinois while I was in the sporting goods business. So I knew a little something about it, so I did some checking and finally went back to St. Louis and tried to organize an oil company to be established in Alberta, but I guess I wasn't a very good salesman. And-- I just wasn't able to raise enough money to-- to-- to start a company so I went back and started on my own. I had enough money to open an office and start dealing in oil and gas leases. That was in January of 1950. I actually started with ten thousand dollars. In 1979, we sold the company for 360 million dollars. So, I was fairly successful in that. [laughs]
WC: [00:16:31] Could you-- would you like to tell us something about your family? Your--.
HS: [00:16:35] Well, I have two families. I was first married at the age of 20 to a-- a school mate that I went to school with at Principia, which was a military school I attended. We had three children. Gloria, Nancy, and Bill. Bill was a graduate-- through my recommendation took petroleum engineering. And after he graduated he became a-- he owed the US government I think it was two years in the service. And he became a jet fighter pilot. And he was in the service about three years and then he joined me in Calgary in the business and eventually took over the management of Siebens Oil and Gas. And after arriving in Calgary, I met a-- a young lady who was a-- a Canadian. Estelle (?)ston of Scotch descent, and we were married in-- let's see, it was 1953, I think it was. Estelle had a son, Stewart, by a previous marriage, whom I adopted. And-- and then a little later Estelle and I had a daughter, Mary Jane. At the present time, I now have nine grandchildren and one great-grandson.
WC: [00:18:38] Is there anything in particular that changed your life or altered your point of view, that changed your course in life? I think, perhaps, you touched on some of that here, but is there anything specific that you would like to comment upon?
HS: [00:18:54] Well, the big push that led me to-- that led me to-- [laughs] to a new business and to a new-- [conversation stops abruptly - some garbled voices]
SB: [00:19:08] I'd kinda like to talk about student life, and I'd be interested in knowing how you would compare the students in the '70s and '80s with those of the earlier decades like the '20s and '30s. Do you think they've changed?
HS: [00:19:20] Well, I-- My principal-- my principal contact with students, of course, have been to my children and grandchildren. And school as I've told you was was cut off at a fairly young age. The-- I really have-- really haven't given that much thought although I have-- I have become aware of the fact that every generation-- each new generation have had more-- oh, advanced thinking, and it's a little difficult sometimes for the generation-- behind them to understand them. I found that especially true due to the fact that I have two families. The oldest-- the oldest daughter is 57 and the youngest isn't 30 yet. And [chuckles] so actually, the daughter that's 30 years old there's two generations between us and, it's a little hard. It's difficult enough for one generation to understand the next generation. But when there's two or three generations, well, then it really becomes-- become real difficult.
SB: [00:21:03] Do you think the students today are maybe a little smarter or perhaps lazy-- lazier than they were?
HS: [00:21:10] Well, of course, technology and computing and learning has advanced so much in-- in my-- during my time that there's-- there's-- there's-- it's difficult to make comparisons.
SB: [00:21:31] Do you think attitudes have changed as far as what constitutes a good day's work? And what constituted a good day's work when you were in school or starting off?
HS: [00:21:43] Well, it's not-- I don't think the difference is so much in-- I don't think the difference is so much in-- in students, or rather I, maybe, can't understand the student question, but adults, I'm afraid the younger generations don't understand that those that are-- that are going to succeed and get ahead aren't going to do too well working from 9:00 to 5:00 o'clock, if that answers your question.
WC: [00:22:27] Can I say, I'm sure it does. You obviously have a great interest in education, however, along with some-- some criticisms that-- Why have you decided to focus upon Buena Vista College? Do you feel there's something special here that--.
HS: [00:22:48] Well, having been born here and having contact with Buena Vista-- And incidentally, I failed to mention that during one period, my father traded for a store here in Storm Lake, and it was called The Bargain Basement. And sent me up here to manage it. So I was about, oh, I think about 22 years old. I managed it for, I guess, three or four years. And that was during The Depression. Times were real tough, and so I got a pretty good00 pretty good education in small town business versus city business, and believe me, [laughs] there is quite-- [laughs] quite a difference.
WC: [00:23:50] So, you were here on two different occasions then. You were born here, and you-- you were here for several years during The Depression.
HS: [00:24:00] Right. Well, not only that, but I was here during the summers when I was in-- in the last three years of grade school, my first three years of high school, visiting my-- or staying with my grandmother and grandfather Siebens. And the main attraction up here for me was the lake. Because I fished practically every day that I was here for three months. But I-- I failed to mention in my-- you asked me about my contact with-- with Storm Lake. I-- I sold Buena Vista quite a bit of-- of athletic equipment. And the only problem was that I couldn't collect [laughs] for it. Those days, you know, Buena Vista was in bad shape financially. And-- But I-- I think that-- I think over a period of time, I-- I think I collected most of the [unintelligible] that they owed me.
WC: [00:25:09] There were several years during The Depression there was a question of whether or not the college was going to be able to continue.
HS: [00:25:15] That's right.
WC: [00:25:19] Now again, this is in the area of education and it relates somewhat, I'd say I-- you anticipated some of my questions--
HS: [00:25:29] [laughs].
WC: [00:25:30] accurately and the question I had-- Do you feel that education is overrated or overvalued. I'm sure and you-- you-- you started to speak a little bit concerning this.
HS: [00:25:46] Oh, absolutely not. I'm a great believer in education. Just because they threw me out of [laughs] high school doesn't mean that I don't believe in education. Because if I would have-- if I would have gone on through school, I think I would've done a better job than I did. Not only in the sporting goods business, but later, when I got into the oil business. But let me give you a-- let me give you a-- kind of an insight on the subject. One of my classmates at Principia had heard-- this wasn't too long ago--heard about my success, and they wrote me a nice letter. Now we started to correspond together and-- So-- in one of my letters I said, If you run into Freddy Morgan, who was the principal that wrote dad this letter-- I said, If you run into Freddy Morgan, tell him that the HS: finally did all right, regardless of the fact that he got thrown out of Principia.
WC: [00:27:05] [laughs]
HS: [00:27:05] Well, Freddy Morgan had been dead [chuckles] for about five years-- about five years, but I was just pulling his leg, you see. And-- so this friend of mine came back, and-- and he says, "Well, [unintelligible] you probably haven't heard, Freddy's been dead for five years." [all laugh] And he said, "But--" he said, "You know, most of us in-- in our class graduated from college. Principia had a two-year college at that time, and they're now a four-year college. And he said, "Most of us graduated," and he says "we went to work for others." And he says, "Take myself, for example, I went to work for a big corporation." And he says, "We lived very well. We lived very well. We're retired now on a nice pension. But," he says-- He says, "I don't think any of our class did-- did nearly as well as you did." And he says, "Maybe Freddy Morgan did you a favor." And I didn't get [unintelligible] grasp that, at first, but actually-- actually, what hap-- [Tape scrambles. Recorder shuts off and restarts.] He said in his letter, what actually happened was that-- that we all went to work for-- for somebody else. You had to get out on your own and became an entrepreneur. And had the opportunites that we didn't have. And that did-- that had never occurred to me. That really he'd done me a favor. What's your reaction to that?
WC: [00:28:55] Well, that was your destiny, I think. And, in a way, he had. [Siebens laughs] But along this line again. What-- what do you think one should come out of college with?
HS: [00:29:11] Well, I think that's according to-- to what you like to do. I've had a lot of experience with people-- family and others. And I find the happiest people are the people that are doing things that they like to do. I don't think-- I don't think that in the final analysis, that the amount of money that a person make (sic) has too much influence on how happy they are. I've seen a lot of people that--, a lot of-- a lot of families where the-- where the husband-- is-- is doing-- is very successful, and he raises a family and the kids-- he doesn't teach the kids the value of a dollar, and they're on-- they're-- they're either alcoholics or they're on drugs. And so that, certainly, money is not a measure of happiness. As far as-- as-- as education is concerned, anyhow.
WC: [00:30:34] One would hope that education provides an insight into ourselves as well as others.
HS: [00:30:42] That's right.
WC: [00:30:42] --I think and gives us some additional perspectives concerning life.
HS: [00:30:47] Well, what-- what education does is-- is to teach one to think, how to think. And I did it the hard way. I had to-- I had to do it the hard way. I-- I'm maybe at the end of-- I'm 79 years old now. I've had-- I've had a real education and maybe as good an education as a person coming out of university but it was pretty hard going.
WC: [00:31:20] Well, we-- we hope we hasten [laughs] it a bit. We gather everyone together with libraries and books and associations and that means a great deal, too. Sue?
SB: [00:31:33] Yeah. What's your impression of the Forum? Is it living up to your expectations?
HS: [00:31:39] I'm sorry.
SB: [00:31:40] What do you think of the Forum?
HS: [00:31:41] The Forum. Well, I haven't seen it in operation yet. All I've seen is a skeleton [laughs]
SB: [00:31:50] It's quite a place. It's kind of a bringing together of the college, a centralization point, which is-- we lacked before. It's kinda nice.
HS: [00:31:59] Well, I like-- I like President Briscoe's conception, but I haven't seen it really work yet, of course. We haven't had time.
SB: [00:32:14] What kind of education do you feel business students need?
HS: [00:32:18] What kind of education--
SB: [00:32:19] Do you feel business students really need?
HS: [00:32:23] Well, that's according to what they're cut out for, and what line of business they're going to try to follow. I've suggested to President Briscoe that-- that the school--due to the fact that you're in a rural area here, businesses are small, a farm is a business, of course--that-- that he concentrate on entrepreneurship and-- and small business, rather than corporate business. And the two take absolutely different approaches, because there are a lot of school of business graduates who would take the subjects that the corporations want that wouldn't do well, at all, in a small business. Because a-- a small businessman is called on to-- to have knowledge of a lot of facets in a business, where a corporate-- corporate man, he's specializing in one-- maybe one or two things.
SB: [00:33:44] What kind of an education would a non-business student have, in your opinion? What would be a--.
HS: [00:33:48] Come again?
SB: [00:33:49] What kind of education should a non-business student have?
HS: [00:33:53] Well, I'm afraid I'd have to ask President Briscoe that question.
SB: [00:33:59] [laughs]. We understand that you are very interested in the pre-medical and health-related fields. Why-- why the interest?
HS: [00:34:09] Well, you don't have good health, you're not happy, and you can't do a good job in business, if you want to go into business.
SB: [00:34:20] Can't argue with that. [Brinkman and Siebens laugh] We heard about the-- your listing in the Guinness Book of World Records for fishing in three different places in the same-- same day--Atlantic, Pacific and I don't know where else.
HS: [00:34:35] Oh, yeah.
SB: [00:34:35] And, you know, world class fisherman. Have-- have you been fishing in Storm Lake lately?
HS: [00:34:41] No, about a year ago. I forget whether it was last year or year before but I-- I was out and caught a few crappies.
SB: [00:34:52] [chuckles]
WC: [00:34:53] Does your interest in sports extend into baseball?
HS: [00:34:57] No. I don't know if you know it or not, but I was in an accident here on Storm Lake, while I was here during that period as manager of The Bargain Basement. I got injured on an ice boat, and it gave me a partially paralyzed right leg, and that kept me from participating in tennis and baseball and basketball and the active sports, except hunting and fishing. I have done a lot of hunting and fishing and have overcome, somewhat, this problem I have with my injured leg.
WC: [00:35:42] I was hoping you'd say you were a big St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan. [Cumberland and Siebens laugh]
HS: [00:35:47] When I was in the sporting goods business, of course, I was. In fact the Cardinals made our-- our store their-- their headquarters for hunting and fishing equipment, and we became very-- very close to a lot of the players, back when they were winning the pennant there for a few years. In fact, I hired one of them. After I left Storm Lake, I hired one of them to run The Bargain Basement, Wattie Holm. Wattie Holm lived here in Storm Lake for a number of years. And he was one of the-- of the Cardinals' stars back in the '20s.
SB: [00:36:33] I'd be interested in your definition of success. Or do you-- Can you put it down to a definition?
HS: [00:36:40] Well, success is-- in business?
SB: [00:36:48] In whatever. Life. Business.
HS: [00:36:51] Well, success in business is-- is making a good income for your family and being happy.
SB: [00:37:01] And in life, I suppose, it'd be much the same.
HS: [00:37:04] Right.
WC: [00:37:06] I think we've about used up our allotted time. Is there something you'd like to say in conclusion?
HS: [00:37:15] [laughs] Well, I'm better at answering questions than I am thinking up things to say. That was one-- one subject I didn't excel in, as I mentioned earlier, was English, so I think that about--
WC: [00:37:40] Well, I'm very happy to have been able to interview you, both Sue and I are very happy with this interview. You've been most gracious and I'm-- I'm sure of it. We'll-- we'll preserve this and-- and someday in the future, historians will be playing this and be referring to this-- to the interview. Thank you very much.
HS: [00:38:01] You're very welcome.
WC = William Cumberland
HS = Harold Siebens
Siebens Harold 1985.mp3
SB: [00:00:01] This is an interview conducted by WC: and SB: on June 13th, 1985, with Dr. HS: .
WC: [00:00:16] Dr. Siebens could you give us some biographical information? I understand your father was a student at Buena Vista College during the years 1898 to 1900.
HS: [00:00:29] Well, yes I can go back a little further than that, if you'd like. Would you care if I go back further or not?
WC: [00:00:37] That's fine. I'd like all the biographical material you could--.
HS: [00:00:41] Well, my grandfather Siebens brought his wife, my father, and my aunt to Storm Lake when they were children. And-- It must have been about-- about 1890, I guess. In later years-- he told me that when he arrived in Storm Lake, that there were four roads out of town: north, east, south, and west. And all you had to do was go about a quarter of a mile out of town-- and if you got off the road more than a hundred feet, you were up to your hips in-- in mud. But it seemed like that there were some farmers here who were from the lowlands in Europe, in the Netherlands, and they knew how to drain this land by tiling it. And it wasn't long and they had tiled a lot of the land and kept spreading. He told me that-- not too long after he arrived, he traded a shotgun, a fiddle, and one hundred dollars, for two quarter-sections. One was about-- I think it was about four or five miles north of Storm Lake, and the other about the same distance northeast. But they were too far apart to farm together so he built homes and farm buildings on both quarter-sections and hired farmers to lease them on shares. Think it was one-third, two-thirds. He then went into the town of Storm Lake and bought two vacant lots right across the street from the fire station. He built a very nice house on one of them, along with a barn for a one-horse shay. And-- the other lot was used for raising vegetables-- It-- At age 35 he retired on the income from the two farms.
HS: [00:03:11] Another story that was of interest and-- told me when I was, oh, 14 or 15 years of age, was that one day we were discussing Russia. And his warning was, "Hurled." He called me "Hurled." My name is Harold, but he called me "Hurled." He says, "You look out for them Rooshians." Well, [laughs] his-- his prophecy has certainly come true.
HS: [00:03:49] My father attended Buena Vista. I think it was in nineteen hundred, for one year.
[00:03:59] And graduated in the-- in what was then called the commercial course, which is now, of course, a-- a-- a school of business. I think his first-- Well, actually his first attempt at making money was trapping muskrats. And he didn't have very far to go, because, at that time, they lived pretty close to the edge of town. And he had a line of traps and sold his muskrats, but it wasn't very long when he decided that there was more money buying the muskrats from other trappers and reselling them. From there-- he went-- well, he went to Buena Vista, and after he graduated he went to work as manager for Lampson (sp) Grain Company. I-- I do not have a record of how many years he was at that position, but he finally resigned from Lampson, a full-fledged trader, and in those days trading was a profession. A little hard to understand what the profession consisted of, but to give an example: on a Monday morning he may board-- board the I-- I-- the Illinois Central [railroad] going east, and get off at some town down the line 100 or 200 miles and check in at the local hotel. After unpacking his bag, he'd go down into the lobby where he would find four or five other traders. Well, these men would sit around telling what they owned in the way of real estate, stores, motorcycles, bicy-- automobiles, most anything of value. And the idea was that they'd just sit there and trade, practically sight unseen. One trader may pull out a list of-- of an inventory of a notions store out of Iowa (he pronounces it "Ioway") and the other trader would-- would have a farm in South Dakota, and they had the deeds right there and the description, and there may be cash involved or maybe no cash involved. Anyhow, Dad was quite successful at-- at trading. And in 1910, when I was five years old, he traded for a business down in St. Louis, and that's how we happened to leave Storm Lake.
WC: [00:07:11] Did he often speak of Buena Vista College or--
HS: [00:07:14] Well, no, actually I don't remember dad saying-- saying too much about Buena Vista. I did have some contact. I went to work actually at a quite a-- early age and I might explain why. To underline the fact that education isn't everything. Now, I believe in education, but my parents sent me to a military school in St. Louis. I think I started in the sixth grade of elementary school, and I started carrying a gun and wearing a uniform, in the sixth grade. Now, I guess I was around twelve years old. I-- somehow was successful in graduating from grade school and got into high school, same military school. And at the end of the third year of high school, the principal wrote my father a letter. And he said, "Dear Mr. Siebens, We're sorry, but we don't seem able to teach Harold much of anything. So, he will not be accepted back at Principia [laughs] next year.".
HS: [00:08:46] So, I went to work, and it wasn't until some years later that I realized what my problem was. That was my memory. I had the world's worst memory. And just to give you a good example-- the English teacher, you know, will give you a poem to learn, you know, over-- over the evening and you're to come the next morning and recite it. I'm speaking of-- of either grade school or early high school. Well, I'd take this poem home, and my mother would help me with it. And I-- I-- I would do a pretty fair job before I went to bed. Well, I'd get up the next morning and go to school, and the teacher would ask me to get up and recite this poem. And I'd get up. I couldn't even remember the teacher's name. That's-- that's how bad my memory was. And to this day, if I don't have a piece of paper and a pencil with me, to make notes, I'm lost. [laughs] But what-- but-- the point I'm trying to make is that-- that education is never easy. You've got to have drive. You've got to-- to want to attain a goal. You have to do something that you're interested in.
WC: [00:10:20] A little bit later, I have some [laughs] things along that line also. Could you tell us a little about your business career? We talked about your father and about your business career and some of the adventures that you've had in business.
HS: [00:10:35] Well, my father-- my father got into the trading business in a big way down in St. Louis. And I went to work for him when I was about 18 years old. And-- [coughs] Excuse me. And-- I learned a lot from him. And a lot from people that he was doing business with. He eventually, due to change of conditions, trading went out of style. In other words, the trading in those days was finding farmers that wanted to get out of farming and move into town and open up a general store. Well, Dad would trade him-- trade for this farm land. He would trade stocks of merchandise that would give the-- would give the farmer instant-- an instant store to start up. Well, that-- that sort of thing went out of style and drop-- dropped off. And my father got into the-- what we called the jobbing business, that is jobbing merchandise. And I gradually-- I gradually worked him into sporting goods. And finally out of general merchandise for Champs (?) Sporting Goods and Athletic Equipment.
HS: [00:12:05] Dad passed on in 1939, and I took charge of the business. And when I sold out in 1948, the Sporting Goods Dealer which is our-- our trade magazine in sporting goods, called the American Sporting Goods Company the finest, most complete sporting goods store in the world. So, I actually built a business from practically nothing up to the finest-- finest in the United States. In 1948 right after the war I-- actually while the war was still going on, I start planning to expand the business. And I increased my-- my employee numbers from about 25 to 119. And my timing was very poor. I tried to expand too fast after the war was over, and the merchandise wasn't available because factories were changing over. It took them time to change over from war to peace merchandise. And-- so I found out that by 1948 that I'd better sell the business before it went down the drain. But-- I didn't have the distinction of building a beautiful [chuckles] sporting goods store. My health had gone-- had gone-- bad on me due to worrying and working overtime and so forth. So I realized I had to get my health back. So, having done a lot of fishing and hunting, especially fishing, which I started here in Storm Lake, I decided I'd organize a expedition to Alaska. So, I bought two house trailers and two trucks. I was divorced at the time. I loaded up my three children and my mother and the two house trailers. And the two trucsk which was loaded with hunting, fishing, and photography equipment. And headed for Alaska off the Alaskan highway. 1948 was the first year that they-- that they opened that road for civilian traffic. So it was quite a-- it was quite an experience going up that road. We spent the summer and fall up there. Came back to United States, but on the way up I ran into the Alberta oil development com-- the oil development. And I had some oil experience in Illinois while I was in the sporting goods business. So I knew a little something about it, so I did some checking and finally went back to St. Louis and tried to organize an oil company to be established in Alberta, but I guess I wasn't a very good salesman. And-- I just wasn't able to raise enough money to-- to-- to start a company so I went back and started on my own. I had enough money to open an office and start dealing in oil and gas leases. That was in January of 1950. I actually started with ten thousand dollars. In 1979, we sold the company for 360 million dollars. So, I was fairly successful in that. [laughs]
WC: [00:16:31] Could you-- would you like to tell us something about your family? Your--.
HS: [00:16:35] Well, I have two families. I was first married at the age of 20 to a-- a school mate that I went to school with at Principia, which was a military school I attended. We had three children. Gloria, Nancy, and Bill. Bill was a graduate-- through my recommendation took petroleum engineering. And after he graduated he became a-- he owed the US government I think it was two years in the service. And he became a jet fighter pilot. And he was in the service about three years and then he joined me in Calgary in the business and eventually took over the management of Siebens Oil and Gas. And after arriving in Calgary, I met a-- a young lady who was a-- a Canadian. Estelle (?)ston of Scotch descent, and we were married in-- let's see, it was 1953, I think it was. Estelle had a son, Stewart, by a previous marriage, whom I adopted. And-- and then a little later Estelle and I had a daughter, Mary Jane. At the present time, I now have nine grandchildren and one great-grandson.
WC: [00:18:38] Is there anything in particular that changed your life or altered your point of view, that changed your course in life? I think, perhaps, you touched on some of that here, but is there anything specific that you would like to comment upon?
HS: [00:18:54] Well, the big push that led me to-- that led me to-- [laughs] to a new business and to a new-- [conversation stops abruptly - some garbled voices]
SB: [00:19:08] I'd kinda like to talk about student life, and I'd be interested in knowing how you would compare the students in the '70s and '80s with those of the earlier decades like the '20s and '30s. Do you think they've changed?
HS: [00:19:20] Well, I-- My principal-- my principal contact with students, of course, have been to my children and grandchildren. And school as I've told you was was cut off at a fairly young age. The-- I really have-- really haven't given that much thought although I have-- I have become aware of the fact that every generation-- each new generation have had more-- oh, advanced thinking, and it's a little difficult sometimes for the generation-- behind them to understand them. I found that especially true due to the fact that I have two families. The oldest-- the oldest daughter is 57 and the youngest isn't 30 yet. And [chuckles] so actually, the daughter that's 30 years old there's two generations between us and, it's a little hard. It's difficult enough for one generation to understand the next generation. But when there's two or three generations, well, then it really becomes-- become real difficult.
SB: [00:21:03] Do you think the students today are maybe a little smarter or perhaps lazy-- lazier than they were?
HS: [00:21:10] Well, of course, technology and computing and learning has advanced so much in-- in my-- during my time that there's-- there's-- there's-- it's difficult to make comparisons.
SB: [00:21:31] Do you think attitudes have changed as far as what constitutes a good day's work? And what constituted a good day's work when you were in school or starting off?
HS: [00:21:43] Well, it's not-- I don't think the difference is so much in-- I don't think the difference is so much in-- in students, or rather I, maybe, can't understand the student question, but adults, I'm afraid the younger generations don't understand that those that are-- that are going to succeed and get ahead aren't going to do too well working from 9:00 to 5:00 o'clock, if that answers your question.
WC: [00:22:27] Can I say, I'm sure it does. You obviously have a great interest in education, however, along with some-- some criticisms that-- Why have you decided to focus upon Buena Vista College? Do you feel there's something special here that--.
HS: [00:22:48] Well, having been born here and having contact with Buena Vista-- And incidentally, I failed to mention that during one period, my father traded for a store here in Storm Lake, and it was called The Bargain Basement. And sent me up here to manage it. So I was about, oh, I think about 22 years old. I managed it for, I guess, three or four years. And that was during The Depression. Times were real tough, and so I got a pretty good00 pretty good education in small town business versus city business, and believe me, [laughs] there is quite-- [laughs] quite a difference.
WC: [00:23:50] So, you were here on two different occasions then. You were born here, and you-- you were here for several years during The Depression.
HS: [00:24:00] Right. Well, not only that, but I was here during the summers when I was in-- in the last three years of grade school, my first three years of high school, visiting my-- or staying with my grandmother and grandfather Siebens. And the main attraction up here for me was the lake. Because I fished practically every day that I was here for three months. But I-- I failed to mention in my-- you asked me about my contact with-- with Storm Lake. I-- I sold Buena Vista quite a bit of-- of athletic equipment. And the only problem was that I couldn't collect [laughs] for it. Those days, you know, Buena Vista was in bad shape financially. And-- But I-- I think that-- I think over a period of time, I-- I think I collected most of the [unintelligible] that they owed me.
WC: [00:25:09] There were several years during The Depression there was a question of whether or not the college was going to be able to continue.
HS: [00:25:15] That's right.
WC: [00:25:19] Now again, this is in the area of education and it relates somewhat, I'd say I-- you anticipated some of my questions--
HS: [00:25:29] [laughs].
WC: [00:25:30] accurately and the question I had-- Do you feel that education is overrated or overvalued. I'm sure and you-- you-- you started to speak a little bit concerning this.
HS: [00:25:46] Oh, absolutely not. I'm a great believer in education. Just because they threw me out of [laughs] high school doesn't mean that I don't believe in education. Because if I would have-- if I would have gone on through school, I think I would've done a better job than I did. Not only in the sporting goods business, but later, when I got into the oil business. But let me give you a-- let me give you a-- kind of an insight on the subject. One of my classmates at Principia had heard-- this wasn't too long ago--heard about my success, and they wrote me a nice letter. Now we started to correspond together and-- So-- in one of my letters I said, If you run into Freddy Morgan, who was the principal that wrote dad this letter-- I said, If you run into Freddy Morgan, tell him that the HS: finally did all right, regardless of the fact that he got thrown out of Principia.
WC: [00:27:05] [laughs]
HS: [00:27:05] Well, Freddy Morgan had been dead [chuckles] for about five years-- about five years, but I was just pulling his leg, you see. And-- so this friend of mine came back, and-- and he says, "Well, [unintelligible] you probably haven't heard, Freddy's been dead for five years." [all laugh] And he said, "But--" he said, "You know, most of us in-- in our class graduated from college. Principia had a two-year college at that time, and they're now a four-year college. And he said, "Most of us graduated," and he says "we went to work for others." And he says, "Take myself, for example, I went to work for a big corporation." And he says, "We lived very well. We lived very well. We're retired now on a nice pension. But," he says-- He says, "I don't think any of our class did-- did nearly as well as you did." And he says, "Maybe Freddy Morgan did you a favor." And I didn't get [unintelligible] grasp that, at first, but actually-- actually, what hap-- [Tape scrambles. Recorder shuts off and restarts.] He said in his letter, what actually happened was that-- that we all went to work for-- for somebody else. You had to get out on your own and became an entrepreneur. And had the opportunites that we didn't have. And that did-- that had never occurred to me. That really he'd done me a favor. What's your reaction to that?
WC: [00:28:55] Well, that was your destiny, I think. And, in a way, he had. [Siebens laughs] But along this line again. What-- what do you think one should come out of college with?
HS: [00:29:11] Well, I think that's according to-- to what you like to do. I've had a lot of experience with people-- family and others. And I find the happiest people are the people that are doing things that they like to do. I don't think-- I don't think that in the final analysis, that the amount of money that a person make (sic) has too much influence on how happy they are. I've seen a lot of people that--, a lot of-- a lot of families where the-- where the husband-- is-- is doing-- is very successful, and he raises a family and the kids-- he doesn't teach the kids the value of a dollar, and they're on-- they're-- they're either alcoholics or they're on drugs. And so that, certainly, money is not a measure of happiness. As far as-- as-- as education is concerned, anyhow.
WC: [00:30:34] One would hope that education provides an insight into ourselves as well as others.
HS: [00:30:42] That's right.
WC: [00:30:42] --I think and gives us some additional perspectives concerning life.
HS: [00:30:47] Well, what-- what education does is-- is to teach one to think, how to think. And I did it the hard way. I had to-- I had to do it the hard way. I-- I'm maybe at the end of-- I'm 79 years old now. I've had-- I've had a real education and maybe as good an education as a person coming out of university but it was pretty hard going.
WC: [00:31:20] Well, we-- we hope we hasten [laughs] it a bit. We gather everyone together with libraries and books and associations and that means a great deal, too. Sue?
SB: [00:31:33] Yeah. What's your impression of the Forum? Is it living up to your expectations?
HS: [00:31:39] I'm sorry.
SB: [00:31:40] What do you think of the Forum?
HS: [00:31:41] The Forum. Well, I haven't seen it in operation yet. All I've seen is a skeleton [laughs]
SB: [00:31:50] It's quite a place. It's kind of a bringing together of the college, a centralization point, which is-- we lacked before. It's kinda nice.
HS: [00:31:59] Well, I like-- I like President Briscoe's conception, but I haven't seen it really work yet, of course. We haven't had time.
SB: [00:32:14] What kind of education do you feel business students need?
HS: [00:32:18] What kind of education--
SB: [00:32:19] Do you feel business students really need?
HS: [00:32:23] Well, that's according to what they're cut out for, and what line of business they're going to try to follow. I've suggested to President Briscoe that-- that the school--due to the fact that you're in a rural area here, businesses are small, a farm is a business, of course--that-- that he concentrate on entrepreneurship and-- and small business, rather than corporate business. And the two take absolutely different approaches, because there are a lot of school of business graduates who would take the subjects that the corporations want that wouldn't do well, at all, in a small business. Because a-- a small businessman is called on to-- to have knowledge of a lot of facets in a business, where a corporate-- corporate man, he's specializing in one-- maybe one or two things.
SB: [00:33:44] What kind of an education would a non-business student have, in your opinion? What would be a--.
HS: [00:33:48] Come again?
SB: [00:33:49] What kind of education should a non-business student have?
HS: [00:33:53] Well, I'm afraid I'd have to ask President Briscoe that question.
SB: [00:33:59] [laughs]. We understand that you are very interested in the pre-medical and health-related fields. Why-- why the interest?
HS: [00:34:09] Well, you don't have good health, you're not happy, and you can't do a good job in business, if you want to go into business.
SB: [00:34:20] Can't argue with that. [Brinkman and Siebens laugh] We heard about the-- your listing in the Guinness Book of World Records for fishing in three different places in the same-- same day--Atlantic, Pacific and I don't know where else.
HS: [00:34:35] Oh, yeah.
SB: [00:34:35] And, you know, world class fisherman. Have-- have you been fishing in Storm Lake lately?
HS: [00:34:41] No, about a year ago. I forget whether it was last year or year before but I-- I was out and caught a few crappies.
SB: [00:34:52] [chuckles]
WC: [00:34:53] Does your interest in sports extend into baseball?
HS: [00:34:57] No. I don't know if you know it or not, but I was in an accident here on Storm Lake, while I was here during that period as manager of The Bargain Basement. I got injured on an ice boat, and it gave me a partially paralyzed right leg, and that kept me from participating in tennis and baseball and basketball and the active sports, except hunting and fishing. I have done a lot of hunting and fishing and have overcome, somewhat, this problem I have with my injured leg.
WC: [00:35:42] I was hoping you'd say you were a big St. Louis Cardinals baseball fan. [Cumberland and Siebens laugh]
HS: [00:35:47] When I was in the sporting goods business, of course, I was. In fact the Cardinals made our-- our store their-- their headquarters for hunting and fishing equipment, and we became very-- very close to a lot of the players, back when they were winning the pennant there for a few years. In fact, I hired one of them. After I left Storm Lake, I hired one of them to run The Bargain Basement, Wattie Holm. Wattie Holm lived here in Storm Lake for a number of years. And he was one of the-- of the Cardinals' stars back in the '20s.
SB: [00:36:33] I'd be interested in your definition of success. Or do you-- Can you put it down to a definition?
HS: [00:36:40] Well, success is-- in business?
SB: [00:36:48] In whatever. Life. Business.
HS: [00:36:51] Well, success in business is-- is making a good income for your family and being happy.
SB: [00:37:01] And in life, I suppose, it'd be much the same.
HS: [00:37:04] Right.
WC: [00:37:06] I think we've about used up our allotted time. Is there something you'd like to say in conclusion?
HS: [00:37:15] [laughs] Well, I'm better at answering questions than I am thinking up things to say. That was one-- one subject I didn't excel in, as I mentioned earlier, was English, so I think that about--
WC: [00:37:40] Well, I'm very happy to have been able to interview you, both Sue and I are very happy with this interview. You've been most gracious and I'm-- I'm sure of it. We'll-- we'll preserve this and-- and someday in the future, historians will be playing this and be referring to this-- to the interview. Thank you very much.
HS: [00:38:01] You're very welcome.
Original Format
audio cassette
Duration
0:38:03
Bit Rate/Frequency
80 kbps